Immigration
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I have listened to Gov. Richardson talk, and I have read his views on the issues at his web site.
I agree with him on most issues and I think he is the most qualified candidate for president.
But one of the issues that I feel strongest about is immigration. I am a naturalized citizen. I came to the U.S. 20 years ago as a student, went through all the steps to become a citizen: H1, Green Card, Naturalization. I also helped my family come here and now we all live here. We now have little kids that were born American.
I lived in a war torn country and coming to America was my highest priority since I was a kid and becoming a citizen was my most proud moment.
I would like this American dream that I have realized to still be available to other hard working people around the world, because it's a wonderful thing to go through. And we need to add hard working people to our society.
The opponents of immigration make arguments that, I think are invalid. I would like in this Blog to address these arguments and then I would like to add my pro immigration arguments:
Typical anti immigrant arguments:
1 - (Immigrants take our jobs away)
Unemployment today is at 4.6%, which means 95.4% of people who are looking to work have a job.
If you compare the unemployment rate per state, you would see that most Border States with Mexico have lower than average unemployment. The highest unemployment states are not high immigration states.
Here are some numbers from the CNN website for unemployment per state:
Border States:
New Mexico: 3.8%
Arizona: 4.1%
Texas: 4.5%
California: 4.8%
Other High immigration States:
Florida: 3.3%
Oklahoma: 3.8%
Colorado: 4.0%
New York: 4.0%
Louisiana: 4.3%
In that case which are the states with the highest unemployment? Here is the list:
Kentucky 5.2%
Rhode Island 5.2%
Massachusetts 5.3%
Oregon 5.4%
Ohio 5.6%
District of Columbia 6.3%
South Carolina 6.6%
Alaska 6.7%
Michigan 7.1%
Mississippi 7.5%
All non immigrant states. Could the truth be "the other way around"? Could immigration actually help unemployment? Check the numbers.
Source: Link
What about the other 4.6% unemployed: Well that includes people between jobs, people who don't want to work and are filing unemployment to get money, People who are applying for jobs beyond their capabilities. And finally the legitimate person actually looking for a job they are qualified for and not getting it. How much could that be out of 4.6%, and then how much of those are not getting their jobs because immigrants are taking it away. You would quickly realize that percentage is almost 0%
The fact is: many immigrants add total jobs to the economy, because they grow the economy. And they do jobs that they are best suited for, whether it's the trades trained man that builds your house or the Ph.D. that teaches you kids in college. Check out "Comparative Advantage" in Business 101 courses.
2 - (Immigrants take money from our social programs and they don't contribute to taxes).
The reality is that most immigrants are denied most social services because they don't have the appropriate paper work and because they fear deportation if they get caught.
Many immigrants pay income taxes and social security taxes on fake SS numbers and because the SS numbers are fake they never get any social security benefits in return
All immigrants pay sales taxes and usage taxes.
Most immigrants come to the states during at the beginning of their productive years. After their country of origin supported them when they were unproductive (0-18 years)
3 - (Immigrants do not integrate with our society, they do not learn English. They are trying to change our culture)
The reality is that most immigrants are multilingual some speak 2,3,4… languages fluently. And almost all eventually learn English (even if it takes a few years). I speak English well but I have an accent. Sometime people make fun of my accent, and I usually answer: I like to see how good your accent is on your third language.
Most immigrants are Christians. They do celebrate Christmas and they don't sacrifice animals
Most immigrants have high morals and family values
Most immigrants dream of coming to America and integrating with this society that we have admired for so long.
4 - Immigration increases the threat of terrorism
As a matter of fact, most people that have been implicated in terrorist activities have not been immigrants and have not come in through the border with Mexico. Most either came here to study flying, visit on tourist or business visas or were born here.
Now here are some pro immigration points I would like to make:
1- Baby boomers retiring and living longer:
Our baby boomers are retiring. The percentage of people in retirement is increasing and people are living longer. The baby boomers are getting ready to retire and increase that number even more. Our birth rate is not high enough to expand the economy to support the retirees so we need new people driven to work and produce to support our retirement system. We also need their (properly educated) kids after them.
2- Selection process:
We tend to select immigrants at both ends of the jobs scale: most of our Ph.D.s are immigrants and most of our construction workers and janitors are immigrants. In both cases we import the best most qualified people. In the first case with our legal immigration selection process of selecting highly educated people that we bring in at the beginning of their productive life. In the second case by measuring the drive that an illegal immigrant has to risk his life and money for the chance to come work and produce here without any social net to support him if he doesn't work.
Both of these immigrants come here at the beginning of their productive life. They instill the spirit of family, hard work and education in their American born children that continue their contribution to our society
3- Immigrants make our cost of living lower.
Immigrants decrease the cost of building our houses, highways, infrastructure that is crucial to our economy
They decrease the price of our food, and the prices of service that we need and use every day: Cleaning, gardening, hotels, restaurants…)
I agree with him on most issues and I think he is the most qualified candidate for president.
But one of the issues that I feel strongest about is immigration. I am a naturalized citizen. I came to the U.S. 20 years ago as a student, went through all the steps to become a citizen: H1, Green Card, Naturalization. I also helped my family come here and now we all live here. We now have little kids that were born American.
I lived in a war torn country and coming to America was my highest priority since I was a kid and becoming a citizen was my most proud moment.
I would like this American dream that I have realized to still be available to other hard working people around the world, because it's a wonderful thing to go through. And we need to add hard working people to our society.
The opponents of immigration make arguments that, I think are invalid. I would like in this Blog to address these arguments and then I would like to add my pro immigration arguments:
Typical anti immigrant arguments:
1 - (Immigrants take our jobs away)
Unemployment today is at 4.6%, which means 95.4% of people who are looking to work have a job.
If you compare the unemployment rate per state, you would see that most Border States with Mexico have lower than average unemployment. The highest unemployment states are not high immigration states.
Here are some numbers from the CNN website for unemployment per state:
Border States:
New Mexico: 3.8%
Arizona: 4.1%
Texas: 4.5%
California: 4.8%
Other High immigration States:
Florida: 3.3%
Oklahoma: 3.8%
Colorado: 4.0%
New York: 4.0%
Louisiana: 4.3%
In that case which are the states with the highest unemployment? Here is the list:
Kentucky 5.2%
Rhode Island 5.2%
Massachusetts 5.3%
Oregon 5.4%
Ohio 5.6%
District of Columbia 6.3%
South Carolina 6.6%
Alaska 6.7%
Michigan 7.1%
Mississippi 7.5%
All non immigrant states. Could the truth be "the other way around"? Could immigration actually help unemployment? Check the numbers.
Source: Link
What about the other 4.6% unemployed: Well that includes people between jobs, people who don't want to work and are filing unemployment to get money, People who are applying for jobs beyond their capabilities. And finally the legitimate person actually looking for a job they are qualified for and not getting it. How much could that be out of 4.6%, and then how much of those are not getting their jobs because immigrants are taking it away. You would quickly realize that percentage is almost 0%
The fact is: many immigrants add total jobs to the economy, because they grow the economy. And they do jobs that they are best suited for, whether it's the trades trained man that builds your house or the Ph.D. that teaches you kids in college. Check out "Comparative Advantage" in Business 101 courses.
2 - (Immigrants take money from our social programs and they don't contribute to taxes).
The reality is that most immigrants are denied most social services because they don't have the appropriate paper work and because they fear deportation if they get caught.
Many immigrants pay income taxes and social security taxes on fake SS numbers and because the SS numbers are fake they never get any social security benefits in return
All immigrants pay sales taxes and usage taxes.
Most immigrants come to the states during at the beginning of their productive years. After their country of origin supported them when they were unproductive (0-18 years)
3 - (Immigrants do not integrate with our society, they do not learn English. They are trying to change our culture)
The reality is that most immigrants are multilingual some speak 2,3,4… languages fluently. And almost all eventually learn English (even if it takes a few years). I speak English well but I have an accent. Sometime people make fun of my accent, and I usually answer: I like to see how good your accent is on your third language.
Most immigrants are Christians. They do celebrate Christmas and they don't sacrifice animals
Most immigrants have high morals and family values
Most immigrants dream of coming to America and integrating with this society that we have admired for so long.
4 - Immigration increases the threat of terrorism
As a matter of fact, most people that have been implicated in terrorist activities have not been immigrants and have not come in through the border with Mexico. Most either came here to study flying, visit on tourist or business visas or were born here.
Now here are some pro immigration points I would like to make:
1- Baby boomers retiring and living longer:
Our baby boomers are retiring. The percentage of people in retirement is increasing and people are living longer. The baby boomers are getting ready to retire and increase that number even more. Our birth rate is not high enough to expand the economy to support the retirees so we need new people driven to work and produce to support our retirement system. We also need their (properly educated) kids after them.
2- Selection process:
We tend to select immigrants at both ends of the jobs scale: most of our Ph.D.s are immigrants and most of our construction workers and janitors are immigrants. In both cases we import the best most qualified people. In the first case with our legal immigration selection process of selecting highly educated people that we bring in at the beginning of their productive life. In the second case by measuring the drive that an illegal immigrant has to risk his life and money for the chance to come work and produce here without any social net to support him if he doesn't work.
Both of these immigrants come here at the beginning of their productive life. They instill the spirit of family, hard work and education in their American born children that continue their contribution to our society
3- Immigrants make our cost of living lower.
Immigrants decrease the cost of building our houses, highways, infrastructure that is crucial to our economy
They decrease the price of our food, and the prices of service that we need and use every day: Cleaning, gardening, hotels, restaurants…)
Also, believing that flooding our nation with millions of unskilled, uneducated and often ILLEGAL foreign nationals to save our nation and the Social Security is beyond comprehension and only futhers the Ponzi scheme. Conservative estimates puts the net, net, net COST of rewarding those who illegally broke into our country at $2.5 TRILLON! Also, look at the international data on nations who have higher standards of living than the U.S....they do not depend on third world cheap labor to survive.
Also, do a little research on the basics of Supply and Demand when discussing wages. Cheap labor is not cheap. Also, check your facts on the net cost of illegals...you use data about langauge, wages, etc from all "immigrants"...including legal, educated, high earning folks from India and blend that data with millions of Latin illegals...YOU NEED TO SEPARATE YOUR DATA...your crime stats are wrong also....illegals are way over represented in crime stats according to Bureau of Prisons...NOT including the crime of breaking into this nation and working (2 crimes). No more Kool-Aide fro you Mike.
People who do not work need to be supported but the rest of our economy not people who do work. Your numbers and estimates are biased and created by people who are anti immigrants. The economy needs the supply of jobs at all levels not just at the top level and the proof is that immigrants all work. They don’t even have a choice to go on unemployment or welfare.
The law of supply and demand is the number one factor in immigration. If these jobs did not exist and workers were not needed the supply would not have anywhere to go. So immigration is absolutely driven by the laws of supply and demand. Did you see my section on unemployment in the Border States? I got that from CNN.
You want to punish people for the “crime” of wanting to work and produce. You call them criminals. Even illegal immigrants are not criminals. The bill to criminalize immigration did not pass last year. Are you a criminal when you drive your car over the speed limit? You do endanger people’s lives when you do that and it is illegal, and yet you are not a criminal for doing that
I'm so sorry for you and your post. You may have a sympathetic hart, but your logic is completely screwed up. The solution to 20 million Mexican's problems is in Mexico. Allowing them to invade our country by the tens of millions is dangerous and wrong. As an example, let’s say I wish to bring a few hundred of my friends over to your house and spend a few days around your breakfast table. We will work for the food we eat, but you must pay for any injuries we incur while working and we cannot be held responsible for the petty theft some will dabble in now and again... I want you to adapt to our music, dress and life style and respect our customs and ways of doing things. We are not going to let you know when we are coming or when we are leaving. I expect you to simply smile and say "Welcome"...
Now what's the matter Mike? All of the sudden you don’t like my immigration plan? Maybe you need a wakeup call.
The answer is to send these 20 million illegal’s back to Mexico where they can make a difference in Mexico and build their country into a respectable habitable land for all of their citizens.
If we cannot get them to leave by request, we must use force. If Mexico will not address the needs of its people, then perhaps we would be doing them a service by going to war with Mexico and taking the country by force. We could then impose our will, our systems and our culture on them for their own good... Is that what you want?
Solutions:
Boarder control.
Fine employers for hiring illegal’s
No services without payment, i.e., education, medical, and welfare.
Deport all illegal’s.
Restrict immigration numbers to the needs and capacity of our country. 20 million is far too many by any reasonable standard. Only a complete idiot would welcome 20 million people across the border unchecked and uninvited. I suppose we could make room for them by deporting an equal number of sympathizers such as yourself… Would you be willing to give up your citizenship and move to Mexico in their place so they can stay?
the demand in the economy is there for the people that are here or else they would not be here. They simply do not have any other option to make money other than work. So the fact that they are all working means that the economy has absorbed them and needed them
About your analogy, if you can fit your 200 friends around my breakfast table, then why not. It would be fun. we can have one big party. but can I have some input into the music too. there are some things I like to hear
I do not fear the person from Mexico. I fear the numbers of illegal’s. The fact that some of the 20 million are working does not by any measure prove a need economically or otherwise. You statement suggests that because many people are murdered each year, there must be a need, or those people needed killing...
As to the breakfast table, I really don’t care if my friends will fit around your table or not. That is not the question. We are coming whether you like it or not. We are not asking you, we are telling you. Now get the place cleaned up and be ready for us. It is our right to eat and take what we want. You can forget your music. We will have our own. Just be ready when we get there.
working as a crime and murdering as a crime are not exactly the same. I thought working was good and murdering was bad.
If you think they are all working, then you have not been to most street corners in southern USA. They stand on the corner waiting to be picked up in large numbers. If you visit many of the schools in Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas, and Colorado, you will find MANY children there that are not working. You will find then using $7000 apiece in educational benefits which their parents are not paying for. Mexican families are often LARGE and it is not uncommon to see 2 parents with 5 children. Of course, the children do not work. So, it is a stretch to think they all work.
Mike, I was wondering if you could come work for me. I have some lawn work that I'm sure you could do and some general clean up. I'll pay you Mexican wages.
I pay a lot in school taxes that go to teach other people's kids. (I don't have any kids) but I am investing in those kids to be the engine in the economy that will support me when I am in retirements. So Absolutely I want these kids to be well educated. That would be better for me and you
It is still the case thought that all the states you mentioned (Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas, and Colorado) have the lowest unemployment rates: around 3-4%
And Michigan where you are at, that does not have as many Mexican Immigrants has the second highest unemployment rate in the country at 7.1%
All your arguments are based on your fears of people who are different. and I understand those fears. I used to have them myself At one point. but as I grew older and I met a lot of people from different races and ethnic backgrounds, I started realizing that I should judge people on their individual merits. not based on the color of their skin or where they were born. My theory is that the percentage of bad people to good people is pretty much the same in any culture, race or country. I hope for your own peace of mind that you will realize that one day. Read the story of the good samaritan in the bible. it illustrates this point very well.
As to your claim in regards to employment - unemployment having something to do with illegals; I find that a Non Sequitur. These individual states economies are driven by other factors. Illegals do however drive down wages and retard technological growth in the sectors where there is a high concentration of these undesirables.
There is no fear in my perspective. There is no racism either. There really isn’t much nationalism. The reality is we can not have millions of people flowing in and out of our economy - nation without proper controls. I do not care if they are black white brown yellow or pink.
You need to become educated yourself and understand the application of economic principles and practices. Try to take a few courses at a community college first, and then perhaps you might gain entry to one of our fine universities. I'm certain that with hard work and effort, you can grasp economic principles. Ignorance is no crime unless you insist on remaining so.
And you are right, it would be great if more people in India and China get more education and more jobs. That only lifts everybody up. and create bigger markets for our products. There is nothing wrong with that and I do what I can to help.
You have a master’s degree in what? Is the school accredited?
Helping is wonderful, but giving away a nations sovereignty, certain area's of employment, and forcing one segment of the citizenry to pay for your charity is wrong.
I would not think of giving away your money, at least until now. After talking with you, I see that you would not mind if I took all your money and gave it to more needy people. Let me help you give your money away. Just send me your bank account numbers and authorize me to debt your account. I'll send you a receipt for all the money I give away out of your account.
I am not proposing that we let immigrants come work here out of charity. They help our economy. You just ignored all the arguments I wrote in my blog. I have never said its for charity. I keep repeating that its better for our economy. Did you even read the blog?
I see that University of Texas offers a masters in Social Work and assume that was your area of study from the tone and tenor of your posts.
You living in the state of Texas might look up the meaning of Sovereignty and what it means to the founders of Texas.
You keep repeating "fear", not good for the "economy". The other poster makes it quite clear the sum contribution of illegals to our economy is NEGATIVE. They take more than they give. Sure, the employers gain a good bit, but tax payers and citizens loose.
It would be good for me personally if I could dump hazardous waste in your yard. There are people that would pay me to help them get rid of it. They do not want it in their yard and unquestionably, it would be good for my client and for me even if it is bad for you. Helping 2 people while screwing you is a positive gain for the economy, is that what you are saying?
I repeat, illegals are not good for the economy. I repeat, illegals are not good for the country.
Yes, I've read your blog and your story about Beirut, immigration, Richardson, and the other posters in regards to immigration. Sorry about being so M E L O D R A M A T I C about it, but it is you that does not have facts to back up your claims in regards to illegals being good for the country and it is you that seems to ignore all evidence and counter argument.
See the following and then come back and I'll teach you some more.
Link
http://www.numbersusa.com/abou t/researchandreports.html
Link
Mike, Who paid for your education?
You don't know how little help immigrants get from laws that are biased against them. And we just have to work hard and prove that we love this country enough and that we want to become Americans bad enough that we would study more, pay more and work harder. the immigration law that somewhat forced me to get higher studies to be able to stay here and eventually become a citizen. eventually helped me out in the long run. Because I got higher income potential with the higher degree.
I am not even going to reply to you analogy between immigrants and toxic waste. In a previous post you compared them to murderers. It is sad that you have these views about human beings that are not that different from you. They value hard work, family. they value the law as much as you do. I hope you can someday resolve these issues you have. and you're not alone a lot of people have similar feelings. maybe because we don't get the experience of being friends with people who are different. then we would realize that they are not that different.
Every time I decide to reply to your posts, I decide to only use a few words to reply but I always end up writing more.
I appreciate that you are representing the view opposite to mine. It is healthy for people to compare the 2 points of view. so for that: Thank you for your comments. I doubt whether you and I will ever change each others minds but the discussion is healthy.
people like Lou Dobbs and Bill O'Reilly pretend to do "news" shows. but there shows are pure propaganda. no news value at all. they relentlessly push and agenda of protectionism, and intolerance. which in my opinion is contradictory to the American values that I came here looking for. American values of freedom, tolerance, human rights, free markets.
They push an economic system that has failed in so many cases, like the soviet union, Old Brazil, old China. The countries that used to be protectionist are figuring out that their systems don't work and are moving into free markets. and there economies are booming because of it. and yet Lou Dobbs and Bill O'Reilly want to turn America into what the Soviets were trying decades ago and failed in.
There is a basic principal taught in Business 101 called comparative advantage it explains how the more free the markets are the higher production, and standards of living are for all. I wish more people had that understanding, they would not listen to Lou Dobbs any more.